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Live Distinctively

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There is an interesting story told in 2 Kings 17. The children of Israel had been forcibly removed from their country and hauled off to Assyria. The Assyrian leadership then resettled the area with their own people. But Scripture says that God sent lions among them because the people did not fear the Lord. The new settlers were wise enough to realize what was going on and so they sent back to the king to tell him what was going on. In response, the king sent one of Israel’s priests back to teach the people how to worship the Lord.

What happened next is interesting and instructive. Verse 29 says, “However every nation continued to make gods of its own, and put them in the shrines on the high places which the Samaritans had made.” Verse 33 says, “They feared the Lord, yet served their own gods—according to the rituals of the nations from among whom they were carried away.”

Are we guilty of this at all? We live as Christians within a milieu (look it up) of other religions, philosophies and cultures. In how many ways have we adopted the beliefs of the people among whom we dwell? How difficult is it for us to live distinctive lives regardless of what those around us think? How difficult is it for us to raise children who are able to stand alone like Daniel and his three friends did and say, “We will not bow to your gods. We will do what the Lord our God has told us to do?”

I think we need to give more thought to our distinctiveness and God’s requirement of obedience to and focus on Him alone.

Part 5 – All of This so that in the Fullness of Time God Would…

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[A PowerPoint video of this presentation is available here.]

Reconcile and gather all things together in Christ

“For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross. And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—” (Colossians 1:19–22, NKJV)

“having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.” (Ephesians 1:9–10, NKJV)

“Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.” (2 Corinthians 5:18–19, NKJV)

The goal and purpose as stated in these passages is that God has purposed in eternity past that everything will be reconciled back to the Son of God. We live in a fallen world and mankind is in rebellion against God. There’s been a separation. But God is going to bring it all back eventually. Every knee will ultimately bow to Christ. Christ is to be all in all.

Put an end to all rule and authority

“Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.” (1 Corinthians 15:24, NKJV)

All other competing powers will be brought under His control.

Destroy death, the last enemy

“The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:26, NKJV)

Show the exceeding riches of His grace and display the manifold wisdom of God.

God’s plan from eternity past is that His Son and the people He has redeemed will be a display for all creation to see. It will display how great and inexhaustible the wisdom of God are and how amazing His grace is that He would take rebellious treasonous subjects and transform them by His love and grace into His sons and daughters, adopted into His family and made co-heirs with His Son Jesus Christ.

“that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” (Ephesians 2:7, NKJV)

“to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,” (Ephesians 3:10, NKJV)

Jesus Christ will reign forever and ever with His bride, the Church

“And they sang a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”” (Revelation 5:9–10, NKJV)

“Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”” (Revelation 11:15, NKJV)

“There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.” (Revelation 22:5, NKJV)

 

God will be all in all and will dwell with His people

“Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” (1 Corinthians 15:28, NKJV)

“And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.” (Revelation 21:3, NKJV)

The mission will have been accomplished. God will have demonstrated His glory and the centrality and supremacy of His Son by creating and sustaining all things through Him, showing His grace by reconciling sinful people to Himself, by demonstrating His justice by not overlooking sin but punishing it in Christ, and ultimately then reconciling everything together to Himself so that God Himself will dwell forever with His people.

 

Part 4 – Because of Christ’s Successful Mission, God Has…

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Highly exalted Him.  We read in Philippians that because of Jesus’ obedience “Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,” (Philippians 2:9, NKJV) In his letter to the Ephesians Paul explains it this way: “He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.” (Ephesians 1:20–21, NKJV)

Jesus Christs has been placed in a position of great glory at God’s right hand and this is far above all other authorities that exist in the universe. The author of the book of Hebrews explains it this way:

“You have made him a little lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands. You have put all things in subjection under his feet.” For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.” (Hebrews 2:7–9, NKJV)

Jesus Christ is the God-man. But never forget that He is a man with a human glorified body. He is the first person to receive his glorified body and He has His place in heaven as our forerunner. He is the guarantee that all of those that belong to Him through faith will also have their place in heaven with Him. He is our anchor behind the veil.

“This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 6:19–20, NKJV)

In the Old Testament the temple has a veil separating the two parts. The part behind the veil where God was could not be entered by anyone except the High Priest and then only once a year. That veil ripped in two from top to bottom on the day Christ was crucified. The earthly temple was a model of what is in heaven. This passage in Hebrews tells us that the way is now open. Jesus Christ is already there as our forerunner and our anchor behind the veil. All who belong to Him will have their place with Him in a glorified body some day.

Christ is central and supreme because He is the One who obtained eternal redemption for us through His sacrifice on the cross and is now seated as sovereign in heaven and every knee will bow before Him (Philippians 2:10).

 

Part 3 – Speaking About Christ, God Has…

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Made Him heir of all things. “[God] has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;” (Hebrews 1:2, NKJV)

God has made Jesus Christ the inheritor of all things. Take a moment and consider what is included in the “all things.” All nature?  Yes. Every planet? Yes. Every galaxy? Yes. Every person? Yes.

In Ephesians 1:18 Paul prays that as believers our eyes would be opened to “the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,” (Ephesians 1:18, NKJV) This is not Christ as our inheritance. This is Christians as His inheritance. Christians are part of the all things that Jesus has inherited from God the Father. And as long as we are stretching our faith, let’s consider the fact that God has announced that His people are joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).

Given Him Authority. “as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.” (John 17:2, NKJV)

“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.” (Matthew 28:18, NKJV)

Made Him head of the Church “And He is the head of the body, the church” (Colossians 1:18, NKJV)

Jesus Christ has been given all authority over everything in the universe, and in a special sense He is head of the Church because the Church is His body. He is present in the Church everywhere the true church is found and He is its head. No pastor, bishop or pope can claim that position.

Made Him the judge. “For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,” (John 5:22, NKJV)

“and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.” (John 5:27, NKJV)

It’s interesting to note that the Father judges no one. The authority to judge every one of us has been given to the Son. Every one of us will stand before Him one day and be judged. We will be judged by a peer if you will, another human. The Man Christ Jesus. Paul told the Athenians, “but [God] now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”” (Acts 17:30–31, NKJV)

When will this judgment take place? The book of Hebrews tells us: “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” (Hebrews 9:27, AV)

Has sent Him on a mission. The Word, the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity was sent on a mission arranged in eternity past. This mission basically was to come to this earth as a human being, live among us, be tempted in every way like we are without sinning, be illegally convicted and executed as punishment for our sins and then to be resurrected to return to His position in glory from where He had come. This time He returns as a conquering King who has “abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,” (2 Timothy 1:10, NKJV)

He testified that He had come to give life abundantly (John 10:10) and to seek and to save the lost (Luke 19:10).

Summarizing then what we have covered under this heading, we have learned that God has made Christ the heir of all things, given Him authority over everything which includes His responsibility to judge and God has sent Him on a mission to rescue people from their sins and the penalty that comes from sin.

We can see therefore how central and supreme Jesus Christ is to everything God has done and is doing in the world.

Part 2 – The Word Became Flesh and Lived Among Us

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The argument I am trying to make in this series of articles is that Jesus Christ, the God-man, is the core of all knowledge, all science, our very being, and He is the Supreme ruler of all things. As we read in the gospel of John chapter one verse 14, John writes that the Word became flesh and lived among us. The Word is the second person of the Trinity. Earlier in the first chapter of John he wrote that in the beginning the Word was with God and the Word was God. So now we see that the Word becomes flesh; this thing called the Word becomes human, taking on a body. We know this person as Jesus Christ. There are several passages of scripture that I would like us to look at and I’m going to quote them verbatim so that you can see what the scripture is claiming.

“He [speaking of Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” (Colossians 1:15, NKJV)

“For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell,” (Colossians 1:19, NKJV)

“in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” (Colossians 2:3, NKJV)

“For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” (Colossians 2:9, NKJV)

“[God] has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,” (Hebrews 1:2–3, NKJV)

According to Colossians and Hebrews Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. The writer to the Hebrews says He is the express image of God. In other words, He is the exact impression of God. Just like we might make a stamp and impress an image onto a block of clay, Jesus Christ is the impress stamp , the image of God the Father. These verses further tell us that all of the fullness of the godhead dwelt in Jesus Christ bodily. That means that when Jesus was walking around on this earth getting his feet dusty, He was the embodiment of the entirety of the godhead. In addition to that, Paul wrote to the Colossians that all of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are to be found in Jesus Christ himself. The word all leaves nothing out. Every bit of wisdom that exists in the universe has its origin in Jesus Christ. All the knowledge of science , chemistry , astronomy, psychology, sociology and so forth are rooted in Christ. Any wisdom that there is in the universe has its source in Jesus Christ. This is why His being is central and supreme.

There can be nothing said of someone more profound and acknowledging of the supremacy of that one and the centrality of that one than to say that he is the creator of all things, the entirety of God almighty is contained in him, and that in him dwells all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Part 1 – In the Beginning

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The purpose of this series of articles is to demonstrate the centrality and supremacy of Christ as given to us in the Scriptures. The first part of this series I’m calling “In the Beginning.” The first verse in the Bible tells us,“In the beginning God …” Obviously this means that in the beginning God was there before anything else existed. In John 1:1 the Bible tells us “In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.” Before anything else existed, God was there, as was the Word. And the Bible says that the Word was God. We also know from Genesis 1:2 that the Holy Spirit was also present at creation hovering over the waters. These verses lay the foundation for the Christian worldview and philosophy. We are going to discover that “The Word” is none other than the Son of God and the man Jesus Christ and He is the center of everything.

[There is audio along with a PowerPoint video of this study at  https://youtu.be/JPnmeApPQ3c ]

What we can see from this is that the Trinity, Father Son and Holy Spirit were all present at creation. In John 17:24 Jesus testifies that God the Father loved Him before the foundation of the world. Earlier in that same chapter Jesus looks forward to the day when He will share again in the glory He had with the Father before the world began. What we know from this is that within the Trinity there was love, communication, and glory before anything else had been created. Should we be surprised then that we as human beings who have been created in the image of God have personalities that include love and communication as part of our nature?

These truths lay the foundation for what comes next. In Genesis 1:1 we learn that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. In John 1:1-3 we learn that the Word that was in the beginning with God and who was God created all things and there’s nothing that’s been created that He did not create. Therefore, as we look around, everything we see around us has been created by the Word, the son of God.

“He (speaking of Jesus Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.” (Colossians 1:15–17, NKJV)

“[God] has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,” (Hebrews 1:2–3, NKJV)

What do we learn from these passages? Jesus Christ the Son of God created all things including thrones, dominions, principalities and powers. We further learn that He made everything for Himself. Just as we sometimes create artwork or a piece of furniture for our own use and enjoyment, Jesus Christ did the same with all of creation. In addition we learn that He holds everything together. Why is it important to consider the centrality and supremacy of Christ? Because He is the foundation of all of creation and He supports and holds it together for His own pleasure and glory.

Let’s think about these ideas in a different way. In the beginning all that existed was a 3-person God who existed in a spiritual form, that is, He did not have a body. And yet there was communication and love among the members of this Trinity. At some point before time began this triune God decided to create the universe. All of the atoms and molecules that make up our universe , our world , and our bodies, were created out of nothing through the Word of this God. And what John tells us in John chapter one is that this Word that created all things is God himself. If that’s not amazing to you, I don’t know what it would take to amaze you.

I think what we need to do as Christians is to try to put aside the conception of these things as being religion or religious teaching. The Bible is saying, and we as Christians believe, that these statements are actually true. This truth is at the core of all science and all history and, in fact, all knowledge. There actually is a God who exists in three persons and who created all things by his word. I would go so far as to say that if you do not believe this to be true, then it is likely that you are actually not a Christian because these statements in the Bible are the foundation and the core of all the rest that follows.

The Hope of God’s Calling

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Hope of His Calling

Paul writes in Ephesians: “the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,” (Ephesians 1:18, NKJV)

Why is there hope in his calling? This is what I want us to think about today.

Let’s start with Romans 8:28-30:

“And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” (Romans 8:28–30, NKJV)

First in this passage we learn that God works all things together for good for those who are the called according to His purpose. There is hope in His calling because we are assured that God is at work on our behalf, ensuring that all things are working together for good.

The second thing we notice is there is a sequence here. God foreknew and then predestined His own to be conformed to the image of Christ. It is these foreknown and predestined people that God called. So there is hope in God’s calling because we therefore know that God knew us from eternity past and predestined that we would become like Christ.

The verse goes on to say that those He called He justified and glorified (past tense). So we further learn that there is hope in our calling because those whom God calls have been justified, that is, declared righteous. And not only that, as far as God is concerned, they are already glorified. There is a lot of hope in that!

Romans 11:29 tells us that the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. So that is another truth that strengthens our hope, isn’t it? It encourages our hope to know that God’s calling in our lives will never be revoked. He will not take it back. The deal has been sealed.

Paul’s prayer, quoted at the beginning,  is that the eyes or our hearts would be enlightened – that we would be able to “see” this truth so that our calling by God would bring us hope. I don’t think there’s a better thing to meditate on as we begin a new year!

 

 

 

 

Charles and Larry Discuss “The Great Extinction”

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The Great extinction

L: I just read that the 6th great extinction might be underway as we speak!

C: What do you mean?

L: Well, they said that for example the African elephant population has been cut basically in half since the early part of the 1900’s.

C: Should we be worried?

L: They said a lot of it is caused by humans. I think we should work really hard to stop it.

C: What should we do?

L: I think we need to cut back on carbon emissions, stop clearing so many forests, cut back on the number of kids we have, and so on.

C: And you think that would stop this extinction from taking place?

L: I think it would help.

C: Let me ask you a question. What caused the first five extinctions to take place?

L: I don’t know. It just happens. That’s the way evolution works. The earth changes, species come and go.

C: So why should we worry about this one?

L: Because if our species disappears, we’re doomed!

C: Yea… and what would happen then?

L: I guess new species would develop and…

C: Life would go on. What’s to worry about?

L: But part of this is our fault and we have the responsibility to take steps to slow it down, so that future generations will be able to live the kind of life we live.

C: Future generations of humans or just future generations of something?

L: Future generations of humans.

C: You don’t believe in God, right? You believe in evolution through totally natural causes.

L: That’s right. There is no God planning or guiding or directing what is happening. It just happens because of the laws of science.

C: So evolution of the planet and of life just goes on without any supervision or oversight. There is no ‘ought’ to any of it. Atoms bounce around in certain ways and come together according to nature and over enough billions of years we have the earth as we know it today. Right?

L: That’s right.

C: So my first observation is that the way the earth is today, then, is not necessarily the ideal. It just happens to be the way it is today. Over the course of evolution, let’s say when the dinosaurs were here, they went wherever they wanted and ate what they wanted and there was no God and no people to say, “You shouldn’t go there or do that.”

L: Right

C: Eventually evolution got to human beings. Humans decide to build houses and so they cut down trees. All of a sudden that is a bad thing. Beavers are never accused of destroying trees. It’s just what happens.

L: But we have intelligence.

C: So we chop down trees. We clear land so we can grow crops and we have extended our life span. We’ve invented products to make our work easier. It’s what we do.

L: But we need to do those things carefully and with thought and care for the environment.

C: Who says so?

L: We sort of agree to do that.

C: Not everyone.

L: I know but some people waste things and pollute the environment and it hurts other people.

C: Who says that is bad. Some animals do things that hurt other animals or other species and we never accuse them of ruining the environment.

L: That’s because they can’t think.

C: Thinking about things is an ability we have, but as soon as you suggest that there is an ought, I get nervous because that makes me think that you think that there are rules out there somewhere that we are all obligated to obey.

L: Well there are.

C: Who says so?

L: We just know it. We know that we shouldn’t harm the environment so that other people suffer now or at a later time.

C: Apparently not everyone knows that because if they did, they wouldn’t be doing things that you don’t like.

L: They might not know it, that’s why we need to educate them.

C: But who says your way of thinking is right, just because you believe it or say it.

C: Here’s the thing: If evolution is true, humans are currently the product. The earth is the way it is now, but that is not the ideal. It just is the way it is. So if humans bring a species of plants from China to the U.S., that shouldn’t cause everyone to freak out. It’s just what happens in the course of evolution. Evolution created us and evolution gets to deal with the results of our behavior.

C: There are no “oughts.” Any oughts are preferences of one group seeking to subjugate another group. Right now it seems like those of your point of view are trying to create oughts that people like me are required to agree to and follow just because you have more numbers or power. But that doesn’t make your preferences right.

C: Humans inherently have the notion that what I have just described can’t be right. We believe that people really ought to live in a certain way even if we’re not always sure what that way is. I maintain that the moral sense we have and the conscience we have is evidence that we are not really alone in the universe. We haven’t really just evolved from organic soup by chemical laws. There really is a creator God out there who has the list of oughts and has the right to tell us what to do. We need to find the list.

C: The reality of a creator God is a better foundation for environmental care than evolution. If there is a God who made all this, then we have the responsibility of handling his creation with care and treating all of it with respect.

Charles and Larry Discuss Sexual Sin, Jesus’ Compassion and Hell

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These CL Discussions are imagined conversations between a conservative Christian and a liberal person. The conservative’s name is Charles. The liberal’s name is Larry. These are not real conversations. They are imagined and the conservative views are mine, a fact you would have had no trouble discerning yourself. The opinions of the Liberal are typical of people I have met over the years, but don’t reflect any one person’s point of view. I am not claiming that these discussions are unbiased. I’m using them as a means of organizing my own thoughts as well as possibly helping others clarify their own point of view as well.

Charles and Larry have met for breakfast and have been discussing a wide range of topics when Larry changes the subject…

L: I agree with the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage. And I think Jesus would have agreed. He was one to show compassion and not condemn people, don’t you think?

L: Think about the woman who was arrested while committing adultery. Jesus rebuked people for judging saying, “Let him who is without sin throw the first stone.”

C: When all of her accusers had left her, Jesus said, “I don’t condemn you either.”  This is just what you said. Somewhere else in the Bible Jesus said, “I have not come to condemn the world but to save it.” But Jesus said more than this to the woman. After he told her that he didn’t condemn her, he told her to go and don’t sin anymore.”

L: Yes, but he wasn’t condemning. And that’s the point. Christians today are so condemning. They’re no better than anyone else and yet they are often so condescending.

C: You’re right. Many of us are. But I think you’re missing an important point in what Jesus is saying. Jesus is not willing to let her go and continue in the life style she was engaged in. He called her adultery a sin. That’s different from the way modern people think. To most people today, adultery is not a sin. It’s a life style choice. But Jesus is telling her to stop. Jesus, the person who loves sinners the most does not want people to continue sinning because doing so will lead to eternal destruction.

L: First of all, I don’t believe adultery is a sin. I don’t really believe in sin as such unless you’re talking about abusing the most defenseless among us. That is sin. It is a sin to not pay people a fair wage and keep people in poverty. But whether someone has sex with someone he’s not married to is a personal matter and I certainly wouldn’t call it a sin. As long as both people are consenting and no one gets hurt, it can’t be a sin.

C: But Jesus thought so, didn’t he?

L: But Jesus lived at a different time. He was under different expectations from his culture.

C: Jesus went against the teachings of his Jewish culture all the time and he certainly went against the pagan culture of his time. And if Jesus was just acting out a part, and if he wasn’t giving actual true truth, then he must not have been God. Because I don’t think God would have played along with either the religious or the secular culture. God would tell it like it is.

L: Maybe so, but at least he had compassion on this woman and didn’t condemn her.

C: But I think you’re missing the point. He had compassion and so should we. But it is not compassion to let someone go without telling them that the path they are on is sinful. The path of sinning leads to eternal judgment in hell.

L: I don’t believe in hell and Jesus didn’t either.

C: Jesus said that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause is in danger of the judgment and whoever calls someone a fool is in danger of hell fire (Matt 5:22).

  1. I don’t believe Jesus said that. He was too loving to have said something like that.

C: It’s in the Bible.

D: But the Bible must not be right at that point. Jesus would not say that!

C: How should we know what Jesus actually said and what he didn’t? Just accept the parts we like and agree with? How are you going to know if any of it is true with that method?

D: No, but I just don’t believe Jesus would threaten someone with hell for calling someone a fool.

C: Jesus also said that if someone causes one of the young believers to stumble, it would be better for that man that a heavy stone be tied to him and be thrown into the sea rather than suffer what he was going to suffer. He went on to say that if your hand causes you to sin, it would be better to have it cut off than to go to hell where the fire is never quenched (Mark 9:42 and following).

C: So it doesn’t sound to me like your Jesus is compassionate in the same way you imagine. Jesus knows that sin is destructive. Sin will keep a person from God. God pleads with people saying, “Turn from your evil ways. Why will you die?” (Ezekiel 33:11).

C: That is true compassion. Someone who knows a course of action will lead a person to certain death and doesn’t do anything to warn them doesn’t love them very much.

Charles and Larry discuss Poverty

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These CL Discussions are imagined conversations between a conservative Christian and a liberal person. The conservative’s name is Charles. The liberal’s name is Larry. These are not real conversations. They are imagined and the conservative views are mine, a fact you would have had no trouble discerning yourself. The opinions of the Liberal are typical of people I have met over the years, but don’t reflect any one person’s point of view. I am not claiming that these discussions are unbiased. I’m using them as a means of organizing my own thoughts as well as possibly helping others clarify their own point of view as well.

(Check for further conversations like this on Fridays. Whenever I have a CL discussion, I’ll post it on Friday.)

C: Thanks for meeting me for coffee, Larry. It’s good to get out and have real conversation and discussion. So much of the debate and argument occurring today in politics and other corners of culture are so vitriolic and combative. One of the things I like about our conversations is that we can debate intensely, hold our ground and yet give each other space to think differently.

L: Agreed! You don’t find much of that kind of discussion going on anywhere anymore.

C: What have you been reading or thinking about lately?

L: Not really been reading much. I’ve been thinking a lot about poverty and its causes. Some people are at a real disadvantage in our economic system. The system seems to favor some people and penalize others.

C: What do you mean?

L: Well, some people grow up in homes where they don’t value education or where the parents are on drugs or something and the kids just grow up not wanting to learn or work hard or anything. They don’t develop a lot of skills and so they can’t find work and the cycle just repeats itself.

C: In all your thinking have you been able to come up with any solutions?

L: I don’t know, I just think we have to help people like that a little more

C: Are you?

L: Am I what?

C: Have you found some family like that that you’re helping?

L: No, not personally. I meant as a society our government should help people like that.

C: Where would the government get the money to do that?

L: I guess through taxes.

C: Do you think that would help the skill problem? I mean it might enable them to buy food and  clothes or keep the heat on, but I don’t think it would really get to the root of the problem.

L: There must be something that could be done to stop the cycle. Maybe there’s something our schools could do more. You were a teacher weren’t you. What are the schools doing to help?

C: I’ve thought a lot about this. I used to teach math and science to middle and high school kids. It was a poorer district. There were a lot of kids who received free lunch and so on. A higher percentage of those kids did not want to work in school and they really didn’t want to do their homework.

L: That’s because nobody at home modeled that for them. How would you expect them to do any homework when maybe their folks were high or maybe it was just a single mom at home who tried her best, but didn’t know how to make sure her kids had time to do their school work. Maybe she didn’t even realize how important it was.

C: So if one of those scenarios was the case, what should the school do about it?

L: Maybe keep the kids who needed help after school so that the teacher could work with them more.

C: You could do that, but then you’d have to hire more staff, but it could be done. What usually happened though is that the parents didn’t want to have to come to school to pick them up or perhaps they didn’t have a working car or something like that and so they relied on the school bus to take their children home.

L: They could do that, couldn’t they?

C: Sure. The buses sometimes took athletes home later. What I found though is that in most cases the kids really didn’t want to spend more time in school. They already didn’t like school. Their parents weren’t always willing to fight that battle against their kids. It worked for some kids certainly, but not for the majority. There was something about the climate in those homes that made it very difficult to overcome.

C: Realistically, it seems to me that what has to happen is for someone — now this is going to sound extreme, and it can never really happen – someone needs to basically move in to the home and assist the family to know how to set priorities, budget their time and money, educate them on the importance of learning a skill and teaching them that it takes persistence and daily effort and self-discipline to change into patterns that would be productive for them and their children.

L: Wow, that really is extreme!

C: Or you could have something like a working farm where the kids could go and learn how to get up early and do chores and live a disciplined and organized life with time for chores, school work and fun too of course. I’m not talking about a military camp or a slave farm. I’m talking about a place where kids could learn to be self-reliant and productive and realize the pleasure that comes from being successful at something. So many kids never have that opportunity.

L: But since your ideas are really extreme and are not really going to happen for the majority of kids coming from dysfunctional situations, isn’t the next best thing to provide the family with some assistance financially to get them out of poverty?

C: It doesn’t work. If you gave a family $50,000 a year and the family had no experience in budgeting, bargain hunting, saving for the future, prioritizing purchases, etc., that money would be basically wasted. Don’t you think?

L: Probably. But could we have required instructional classes that go along with it that they have to attend. Maybe somebody could go shopping with them to show them how to do it.

C: Where are you going to get that kind of staff?

C: And what happens when they don’t meet the requirements, miss meetings or whatever? Cut off their support? Then you’re right back where you started.

L: What does your Christian faith teach about all of this. Aren’t we supposed to have compassion on the poor?

C: Yes, of course. It’s too big a topic to go into in detail, but the Bible teaches a lot of things. Helping the poor is to be an individual or church matter, not a government function. Individual people and churches are to help the people in their communities, people that they have contact with and can follow-up with easier. The Bible teaches that one’s property belongs to the individual. If it is to be shared communally, it is done so voluntarily, not by voting to take more taxes from everybody in the community.

C: One of the things the Bible teaches is that poverty is often a result of individual decisions that arise from thinking or acting foolishly, without regard to wisdom. The Bible also teaches consequences. It says for example that someone who will not work should not eat. It’s not talking about people who are unable to work because of physical difficulties, but if someone is just sitting around all day and is unwilling to work, then they shouldn’t eat. I think we make it too easy for people to do that today. We give them support so that they don’t have to work but still get to eat. And besides that, most poor people in this country have television, a phone, a microwave, air conditioning, etc. That’s not what the word poor used to mean.

L: Now you’re starting to sound kind of mean and unsympathetic to their plight.

C: Not at all. We’ve removed the motivation to work.

L: But sometimes there isn’t a job for everyone.

C: I see help wanted signs all of the time in my county where there is still a lot of unemployment.

L: Maybe people don’t have the skill.

C: To work at Subway?! The thing is you have to follow a schedule, get to work on time, show up every day, and work. There are a lot of people who don’t want to do that.

L: I think most people want to be productive.

C: Then why don’t they take those jobs?

L: I don’t know.

C: Another thing that has happened is that because of all the lawsuits, people can’t really help out around their own government-assisted housing. What if people who lived in a low-rent situation had to help out by washing windows, keeping a garden, mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, etc. But you can’t require them to do that or even allow them to volunteer to do some of that because what if they fall from a ladder while washing windows? Then you have a lawsuit on your hands. So then people who are on government assistance have nothing to do with their time. There is no productive work and so they sit around a lot. Sometimes people like this don’t realize what they’re missing and they get depressed because they don’t understand that what’s missing from their life is meaningful, productive activity.

C: We’ve completely lost God’s plan for work and the reward that comes from working hard and seeing the fruit of your labor. I don’t know how to get it back.

L: Wow! The time has flown by. Speaking of work, I had better get there. See you later, Charles.

C: See ya!